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me writing programming tools: we need to make it easier to code! liberate the code! make it accessible to all!

me debugging someone else's code: you should need to train for 10 years before you can even touch a text editor, and we need a central guild body that randomly audits members, and if your code quality is bad enough you are immediately executed

@dankwraith sometimes you should execute the code, sometimes you should execute the coder

@dankwraith
The two aren't incompatible. Not every piece of code should have more than one developer.

@enkiv2 @dankwraith Is there some way we can make sure that 1) coding is highly accessible, and 2) the resulting code needs a hall pass to go wandering? :-P

@varx @enkiv2 @dankwraith
Well, having professional societies/guilds that only accept members who have demonstrated skill & eliminate members who were involved with bad code would help. A CS degree is no guarantee that somebody can even code. Having a more effective proxy for ability can keep bad code out of industry, where most mandatory collaboration occurs.

@enkiv2 @varx @dankwraith
Right now, we don't have an effective method for non-technical hiring manager types to distinguish between 'can barely write HTML' and 'can write a c compiler', so anybody above the skill level of the former gets to count as 'professional' at the entry level. Lowering the bar for entry is generally good but runs the risk of making the problems with industry worse, if we don't also make hard-to-game proxies for skill with better gradiation available to HR.

@enkiv2 @dankwraith Industry has its own reasons to solve these problems, and I think industry will figure it out sooner or later.

My concern is with open source projects like Mastodon or Emacs or mail clients, which get written by individuals with no oversight and then distributed to other individuals who do not have the technical capacity to make quality judgments, especially around security.

@varx @enkiv2 @dankwraith i would argue that open source has the MOST oversight, because it’s open source

@alana @varx @enkiv2 @dankwraith
Yeah, agreed: open source projects tend to have problems fixed, & extremely flawed projects just abandoned. Meanwhile, /industry/ has bureaucracy that simultaneously insulates each company from the ramifications of its poor decisions & forces and amplifies distribution of tools for reasons unrelated to their suitability.

@enkiv2 @alana @varx @dankwraith
(Basically: incorporation insulates individual decision-makers from liability & creates the kind of centralization that makes amassing enough capital to insulate decision-makers from market failure possible. The hierarchy amplifies the power of decisions made at the top while allowing lower-level decisions to cancel each other out. It takes serious levels of consistent competence at worker level to overrule that.)

@dankwraith

gatekeeping, but by a great big gruff scary-looking dude who happens to be a pushover and keeps holding the gate open while saying "well alright maybe just this once"

@dankwraith part of liberating the code is making it harder to accidentally write bad code

@dankwraith True, bad general practices can mask sabotage, which is good if you are dealing with a shitty corp

@dankwraith but I also want it to be easier to write good alternatives

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