youd chuckle at how many times developers have appreciated my insights into program structure, and then recoiled in horror when i apply the exact same critical processes to the inefficiencies of capitalism


programmers: duplicated effort is a sin, we should streamline processes as much as possible

also programmers: wtf i dont want to ride a bus, that shit is for people who are less good than me, its much better to sit in my car on the freeway for two hours while everyone else also drives their car

@dankwraith yea i dont understand this

why would i want to spend 90 minutes in a car only able to focus on driving when i could spend 45 on public transit and program on my laptop that whole time

@dankwraith like that right there alone is worth it even before you add the whole "hey look its good for the environment and the general public" bits

@ky0ko @dankwraith imagine Open Source was public infrastructure like roads and rails and cell towers

now imagine public infrastructure was maintained by mostly unpaid volunteers who get screamed at by people who are unhappy about the street being dusty

@dankwraith Never was late when i took the bus to school in the UK.

Was frequently late when I commuted.

Fuck traffic. Fuck commuting. give me TRAINS.

@dankwraith depends, in the US I'd probably get a drivers license, thankfully I'm in Dusseldorf and the Rheinbahn is pretty good (except their drivers are sadists who like to turn on door lockdown just before you reach em grr)


To be honest this approach works much better with capitalism and physical services than with software.

If you consider duplication a sin, people will feel ashamed if they want to try something slightly different. It's #capitalism itself that is at odd with duplication of intellectual efforts, because it spread knowledge, de-mistify things and reduce artificial barriers to competition.



To copy is the fist step to learn the skills you need to innovate. The blame on #FreeSoftware forkers is a Capitalism things. In fact you can distinguish a Free Software from an #OpenSource one by announcing to the developers you have forked the project and see their reaction: if they are happy, curious and supportive it's Free Software, otherwise their focus on their market share will show it's open source (a #marketing tool).

@Shamar @dankwraith really that is the issue i have with this. People have to be able to work on forks and alternatives. If there is just one organization for a particular industry, there might not be sufficient room for this.

Not that this necessarily means non-capitalism can't do this, it definitely can't. Can't call universities & the non-capitalist open source capitalist, really.

(Could say that the no-duplication-rule goes inside projects, not among the zoo of projects.)

@Shamar @dankwraith can also ask when do you need to try fork/different ways to do things? It's when what is desired and/or how to do it is not necessarily clear.

Centralized planning makes more sense when it's a well-understood problem in combination with equipment of which we have only one set. (like railways, electrical networks, etcetera)

@jasper @dankwraith

It's software. ;-)

Unless it's bound to specific hardware that is hard to build there is really no reason to NOT fork free software.

@Shamar @dankwraith yep, it's poorly understood *and* everyone can run whatever different versions they want.

Pretty much opposite to the particular criterion for centralized planning.

@Shamar @dankwraith

I think that is oversimplified vs licenses, but the attitude toward forks is telling.


I think real life forks can also be traumatic, even for free software, because it normally divides the community, and the fork itself is driven by some fragment of the community being unhappy with the current direction.

For example the fork mastodon thing last year.

@Shamar @dankwraith

@alanz @bhaugen @dankwraith

I think this is a perversion of #FreeSoftware values, an effect of the "embrace, confuse, extinguish" operated by Capitalism through #OpenSource.

If a #community is not a #market segment, if it the project is based on the #hackers values centered around #Curiosity, there is no reason for drama. There's nothing traumatic in a software #fork, there is just more people learning and experiment.

#Forks should be celebrated in FS!

@alanz @bhaugen @dankwraith

I'm very happy to see people experimenting and organize around #Florence, and I REALLY hope them the best, even if I was totally against their attitude with #Mastodon development.

You cannot impose a free software hacker what to code unless he give you the right to (e.g. through a hiring contract).
All the drama produced around the #forkoff tag was counter productive.

Forking was the right thing to do from the very beginning.

@dankwraith ime it's sales bros who think that and actual programmers take public transit

@dankwraith Have you ever tried to use public transport in a part of the US that isn't New York City, San Francisco, or Boston?

This would be a hit:

VIP buses. For people who want convenience and luxury at the same time. With security guards and limited seats, VIP buses are perfect to take you to the closest station.

@dankwraith also programmers: we need to refactor the entire codebase
@sean @dankwraith all the existing code is bad, and I must know it, I wrote it.

"To heck with public transportation. Let's come up with a system of multi-person vehicles dispatched to move people between major locations. Perhaps at regular intervals. Perhaps with buses."


tbf to see the car problem you have to think about human ressources as a whole, and capitalism makes you think about your ressources alone, makes you not care about anyone. When you have a computer system it's easier to think of it as a whole (except in web developpement in which you could be tempted to make the browsers compute things to lighten the server)

(but yeah good analogy :D)

Sign in to participate in the conversation
The Lamp Institute

The Lamp Institute is an educational institution for those who have felt the drawn of its warm, soft light. The lamp is good. All hail the Lamp.

"I'm gay!"